(no subject)

[chantico]

Sometimes I feel starved for want of discussion, mostly about art, and Art. It's strange to consider that I am in the middle of an incredibly creative social circle, and yet none of them draw/paint/sculpt/have any sort of investiture in the Fine Arts at all, or even any of the concepts of them. I'm at a stage in my work that I want to discuss, and I *need* to have valuable feedback from peers about my stuff. Sure . . . I can show people my illustrations, my pictures, and they can say "This is great!" or, if they have a good eye, "Well, something looks off . . . maybe this?"

But I can't get feedback about composition, or color interaction, or anatomy-- and I certainly can't get feedback about theme or influence or expression.

And even if I could bring this up with peopel around my, it's such a touchy subject . . . for all of the respect fringe creative projects get (gaming being a prime example), Art and the discussion there of is mostly just made fun of. I don't know . . . I doesn't help when at the slightest mention of Art the room erupts in guffaws. It's really fucking frustrating, because I want to be able to point out to people that the things they are laughing at really do have merit . . . but I don't have the words or the courage to speak them anyway.

I dunno. I guess . . . I guess my art at this stage isn't as much about the physical improvment and more about expression of ideas. And right now, I feel incredibly blocked up about expressing *anything*, whether through art, writing, or talking to people. I'm tired of being quiet but I have no one to talk to to break that. It's why I'm updating this more. Maybe it will help me be able to speak up some-- even if there isn't anyone to listen.

Comments

[moonandserpent.livejournal.com]

Who guffaws at art?

Ahhh, if only I hadn't burnt my sketchbooks. *sniff*

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

Meh. It's a general sentiment.

I wish you hadn't, too. I didn't even know you ever drew.

[moonandserpent.livejournal.com]

Mostdays, neither do I :(

I used to spend hours and hours at my desk in my room trying to teach myself to draw by the light of an old banker's lamp. I'd pour over "How to Draw Comics, the Marvel Way", and the dozens of engineering and archetecture books my dad had.

And while I wasn't awesome, I was okay... but I had an art teacher who convinced me that I was horrible and that shouldn't try and be crative. Because I didn't accept Jesus into my heart and that meant I could only let darkness into the world.

No. Really. I think. She was very confusing.

So I gave it up... and when cleaning out my old room one year, I burnt all my sketches and stuff.
I think I lost my first novel to that purge, too.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

That's HORRIBLE. Really. Like, sick to my stomach horrible. That woman should be murdered slowly with a hammer and razon wire.

I know people never want to pick stuff up again after stuff like that (I can't tell you how many stories I've heard like that), but if you ever want to try again and need some practice, I'd be totally willing to hang and sketch with you/do little private lessons.

[moonandserpent.livejournal.com]

I've tried sketching every once and a while and the spirit just doesn't move me. My sketch-o-meter is broke.

But I've always wanted to try and paint.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

I have acrylics, watercolors and oils. I could use the practice myself.

[moonandserpent.livejournal.com]

I'd love to do that.

A lot.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I don't think I laugh at Art. I will freely admit that a lot of Fine Art per se doesn't do a lot for me, emotionally speaking, and my aesthetic buttons are pushed much more by a Michael Whelan or a Furiae than by, say, abstract modern art. Which is not to say that you pointed a finger at me specifically and said "YOU LAUGH AT ART!" -- but I wanted to raise my hand to be counted in the not-laughing camp.

I'm not really qualified to offer critical feedback, but I would probably listen if you just wanted to geek at me about whatever has you really excited at the moment -- and "excited" can mean "thing you're really chewing on and feeling argumentative about," too. It can be fun, listening to people go off about the things they care about, even if it's not something you yourself share with them.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

You are definitely someone that I think of when I talk art or speak about someone having a good eye-- you above anyone else (except Moon, strangely) are able to give me some critical evaluation of my stuff, and are willing to listen to me geek. I certainly don't place you into any of the above.

Still, I'm sure you understand when I say it's kind of like having your writing read by someone who loves books, and reads lots of books, but has never written something in their life. They are appreciative (and often know at least something about what they're discussing), but still lack the common experience. It doesn't make their opinion invalid, but . . . they just don't knwo the right parlance to explain what they see.

As far as ideas however, I'll be more than willing to bend your ear if I get the chance. Thank you.

[moonartemis76.livejournal.com]

strangely huh? ;)

[moonartemis76.livejournal.com]

Wow.. I can't say that I have ever witnessed this but that sucks hard. JUst because people are into "fringe" arts as you call them doesn't mean that the classics don't have merit. My mother used to aggravate me when I was reading Babysitters Club books or the equivalent by bringing in Little Women or Heidi or Shakespeare of some kind and saying "Classics are classics for a reason" It was irritating to my obstinate 8 year old self but true.

That said. I know very little about art. I took an Art History course at my "liberal arts" high school because it was required for graduation and I ended up loving that class. I wish honestly that I knew more. I enjoy understanding *why* I like something on top of my gut reaction. Any poor bastard that's attended the theatre with me can attest to that. I hereby volunteer myself as a sounding board... and hopefully I will learn enough along the way to talk with you about those things that you want feedback on.

Good luck, Babe. YOU are very good. Your art is very good. Pour one into the other and it's outstanding. ;)

[laurelwen.livejournal.com]

While I do not have the extensive background and training in the arts that you do, I can assure you that I understand the need to discuss both art and Art. I may not be able to offer technical advice since I do not know all the techniques of your chosen media, but since I am a jack of most trades, master of none, I have taught myself some of the aspects of art. I could provide a sympathetic ear, and possibly even offer some mildly educated opinions on a specific range of topics.

All of which is meant to say: Dude, I'll talk to you about Art!

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

I'd love to chat with you more about the subjects. Maybe you can pick up some extra knowledge from my field, and I could learn a bit more about the bewildering fields of crafts and other art forms I've never had the chance to experiment with.

Jeez, all these closet art people . . . I'm starting to think I should host an Art Party, where people would just bring supplies for a whole bunch of stuff, art books, and sit and talk about Monet and Manet and Sexuality in Italian Art and what exactly defines post-modern.

[laurelwen.livejournal.com]

That's what we like to call a Salon. I think it's a grand idea. I'd love to host.

I even have a friend from HobLob days who is also an artist, but lives a fairly secluded lifestyle, and I think she might be up for it. So we could get some cross pollination going on.

[nekomata.livejournal.com]

Dude, what happened to the FA school? Back in my day (ZOMG, less than 3 years ago...) the only art we ever made fun of was Modern Art. And we had tons great discussions while working on projects. I don't know if it's different because I focused in 3-D media and photography, or what.

If you ever want critique, just ask me. I can't draw worth fuck, but I understand color theory and I know how things should look.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

The painting and drawing programs at IU focus almost entirely on the representational and teach nothing about the other, less material aspects of making art-- and I really mean that. There is only ONE, count em, ONE class in the entire painting/drawing cirriculum that is non-observational.

I have no problem at all with representational artwork, because it can be beautiful, life drawing skills are *so* necessary, and it's very important to have a solid base on which to draw from when doing art-- but I'm disturbed by the fact that even the upper level classes absolutely ignore any of the theory behind it, or how to but our base skills to use. There are no classes on abstract painting, or illustration, or expressionism, or, well, *anything*.

[nekomata.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see that. I have a big problem with the way they teach the representational classes, anyway. I hated the fact that I took two semesters of oil painting in which the medium was -never- explained. We weren't allowed to paint what we wanted, but instead we were stuck doing the repetitive "nude(s) with a bunch of ugly junk". I learned absolutley nothing about pigment, or when and how to change consistency.

The basic drawing class was the same, we were never really taught shape theory; just expected to sit down and draw whatever still life was set up. Since I have depth perception issues these classes did nothing more than frustrate me.

However, with Textile design, Jewelry Smithing and Photography we were taugh everything from the bottom up. The assignments were more free-form and generally alot more fun. You could do almost anything you wanted as long as it fit the gradng criteria.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

My teacher in painting is thankfully better than that. We still have the "nudes with ugly shit", but at least we've gotten a basic education on the medium, how to mix it, what different varnishes and add-ins do, etc.

I wish I could afford either Jewelry Smithing or Photography, but Oil painting is painful enough.

[nekomata.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know hardly anything useful about the medium. I learned that white contains lead and turpenoid makes me want to vomit.

Oil painting actually cost more for me than Jewelry. The big thing with Jewelry is to know in advance that you should order from Rio Grande. They have good prices and you can split orders with others to save on quick shipping. Photography is also doable if you can borrow a camera and buy leftover supplies from those who took the class a previous semester. Oil painting left me with -nothing- useful. >_<

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

Good advice, thanks.

[sarcastibich.livejournal.com]

I LOVE talking art. I need to talk art, and Art, more. I don't want to let the critical analysis skills and the things I learned so far fall away from me too much because I'm not using them often enough. I have a BA in Art History, which means I had to take enough studio art classes to be the equivalent of a studio art minor. I'm not the most talented artist, and I can't draw from my imagination at ALL...but I think the lack of ability to draw from imagination might work well with your desire for conversation. I can ask you how you come up with the ideas, how you make them transition from mind to media. This will prompt you to consider it and express it, which might open new ideas or realizations so you can better your abilities. Make sense?

If you want critiques or support of your works, I'd be interested in seeing them sometime. Art history classes did give me a fair bit of analysis technique.

And I imagine it would be very frustrating to not have any expressionism/conceptual theory courses. Although, I'm not sure how they could go about teaching such a thing. It seems like something that has to be developed for each artist...but I could be wrong.

Hrmm...would more art history courses help? I know that we spent significant amounts of time going into why artists painted in the style they did, or what theories and principles motivated them. Learning about Dadaism was a lot of fun, and it enables me to make some arguments for modern art (which really does get a lot of negative critiques).

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

Wow, I totally forgot that you went to school for Art History. You want to do restorations ideally, right?

I actually have already finished my Art History minor, and will be going for it as a double major since I have another year in school anyway. That's actually why I feel I have a broader interest in art than just the representational I've been taught. I want to incorporate mythology, symbology, pyschology, a billion other ologies, and I'm not allowed in any of my classes. It's very frustrating!

Thanks a bunch, and I'd totally love to chat with you sometime.

[sarcastibich.livejournal.com]

you're not ALLOWED to incorporate "ologies"?!?!?! What kind of crack are your teachers on? I know that courses on anatomy drawing and such are pretty straight forward in purpose, but a color or design theory class should allow you to incorporate a couple of "ologies" in my opinion. *sigh* Its sad when teachers impose their theories/beliefs/opinions on how art should look and what it should show on their students. I had an infuriating teacher in high school who would give bad grades if you didn't create things the way he thought they should be made, he even went so far as to work on students' works "for" them to "improve" them without their consent. I hate that man to this day.

And yes, I want to go into art conservation as a career. Someday. But I need a masters degree in the field, but in order to get into the graduate programs I have to have experience, but in order to get experience I have to have the degree. Its a retarded cycle, and difficult to break into when one isn't willing/able to live as a poor artist. Right now I have a job that pays bills, lets me live a good life, and pay off my minor debts. After that is settled I'll see about being a starving artist.

[tooth-and-claw.livejournal.com]

Yeah . . . as I stated above, IU's Fine Arts program for painting and drawing is structly representational. So, like, I could . . . if I could show it by setting up a proper still life. You get more freedom if you go for a BFA, which of course is two extra years and a whole lot more money, or if you are in the grad program. But all undergrad stuff is hardcore observational.

Funnily enough, it's my anatomy teacher who is loosest about it-- not in her class, but the reason she offers it is so that we can do non-observational art and make it accurate.

[akashiver.livejournal.com]

I think more people might be up for art talk than you think. I know i like it and - well, see posts above.

But maybe part of the problem is that, unlike us amateurs, you're starting to work at a professional level. Simply put, you're far above the average amateur's level and your friends don't have the background to give the kind of feedback you desire.

[odanuki.livejournal.com]

I used to trace comic book covers, but I never had much of a skill for visual arts. I'm a musician, so my arty stuff is in a different language.